My Fair Lady question(s)

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#1My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 7:42pm

Is Higgins actually in love with Eliza at the end, or is it a fatherly love?

Is it reciprocated?

Why does she stay and not go off with Freddy?

After she does come back in the end, how do they intend to proceed?


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#2My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 7:56pm

MY FAIR LADY is a heavily Americanized version of PYGMALION. MFL deliberately transforms Shaw's play into a Cinderella story in which the wench gets her prince.

So, yes, Higgins and Eliza are in love, however unlikely it seems and however much it infuriated Shaw.

She doesn't go with Freddy because Freddy is an idiot and she doesn't love him. (Freddy can't support them, either, as Shaw makes clear in a lengthy essay on PYGMALION. In Shaw's view, Eliza marries Freddy and then supports him with the flower shop Higgins promises her in both versions.)

But the above is not how American musicals end. So Lerner did a very smart thing and changed the ending. It completely subverts the point of the original (which is about how the English are imprisoned by their social classes and language), but makes it very popular on this side of the pond where we pretend we have no social classes.

Think of MY FAIR LADY as an earlier version of the film, PRETTY WOMAN. Both are equally probable.

As for "how they intend to proceed?", how does Cinderella intend to function at court? These are questions we do not ask once the curtain goes down.
Updated On: 7/28/14 at 07:56 PM

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#2My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 8:07pm

Thanks.

I just (re)watched the movie yesterday, and it was pretty ambiguous, more so than I remembered. Or maybe just unbelievable.

As for "how they intend to proceed?", how does Cinderella intend to function at court? These are questions we do not ask once the curtain goes down.

...but these are the things that keep me awake at night!


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

dramamama611 Profile Photo
dramamama611
#3My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 8:08pm

Intend to proceed? They are fictional, they have no intentions.


If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it? These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.

Jay Lerner-Z Profile Photo
Jay Lerner-Z
#4My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 8:14pm

They have fictional intentions.


Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2
#5My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 8:14pm

To be fair to Lerner and Lowe, they really copied that ending from the British film adaptation of Pygmalion (the one that modernized the setting from the original 19th century to the the 1930s with Leslie Howard and the brilliant Wendy Hiller).

My Fair Lady was the first "grown-up" musical I fell in love with when I saw it as a child and I watched that movie a million of times. However, now I find myself preferring Pygmalion and even though I love the songs, I sort of think they bog down the action too much depending on my mood.
Updated On: 7/28/14 at 08:14 PM

Someone in a Tree2 Profile Photo
Someone in a Tree2
#6My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 8:15pm

I usually agree with practically everything you write, Gaveston, but in this case I take a somewhat different view of why Eliza returns to Higgins' study at the end of the musical.

Higgins says he wants Eliza back "for the fun of it!"

I take Eliza at her word when she says they came to care for each other on some level that she can't quite articulate."I did it because we were pleasant together and I come--came to care for you; not to want you to make love to me...but more friendly like." I doubt that either she nor he would consider it romantic love they were after.

My naive belief is ultimately Eliza WOULD find a proper romantic partner of her own far away from Wimpole Street and that Higgins would happily give her away at the wedding.

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2
#7My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 8:18pm

Shaw thought people would celebrate Eliza leaving Higgins and going on to support Freddie as some sort of feminist statement (before the feminist movement as we know it now was conceived but in the age of women's suffrage). However, even in England, people wanted a happier ending.

I like your interpretation, Someone in a Tree2. Maybe this ending is the ultimate feminist statement. She's with Higgins for the fun of it and there's something enjoyable for her in this relationship. However, it's not romantic and maybe she'll never find a romantic partner…but she doesn't have to need one. She should be fine with or without a romantic partner. It's the intellectual back-and-forth and giving Higgins back what he gave her that she enjoys.

Sutton Ross Profile Photo
Sutton Ross
#8My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 8:21pm

^ Me too. Far, far away from Wimpole St and far, far away from Grandpa Higgins. Yuck.

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2
#9My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 8:27pm

Speaking of "Grandpa Higgins," if we ever see a new production of My Fair Lady or a tv movie version or that rumored feature film version penned by Emma Thompson with the twee Carey Mulligan (after calling Audrey Hepburn "twee"), I wouldn't mind seeing a slightly older Eliza than we're used to and a slightly younger Higgins. I think that'll bring a new dynamic to this tired story. If the Higgins and Eliza are more believable as a romantic couple in age and looks, then it'll make the original ending even better IMO.

BTW, I found the shocking line in Pygmalion to be much more entertaining the one in My Fair Lady. "Walk! Not bloody likely. I am going in a taxi." vs. "Come on Dover, move your bloody/bloomin' arse!"

Updated On: 7/28/14 at 08:27 PM

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#10My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 11:18pm

Even if he got the idea from the film, we are talking about Lerner here, Scotty. PAINT YOUR WAGON, CLEAR DAY, GIGI, CAMELOT and even arguably BRIGADOON: all are about younger women in love with and/or married to older men.

And Lerner did his research, I believe. He was married 8 times, mostly, I assume, to younger women.

***

Someone, are you quoting lines from the musical? What scene? (I can't find my copy at the moment.) All I remember is Higgins singing "I've Grown Accustomed to her Face" sadly and with much amazement at himself and then Liza reappears and he says, "Where the hell are my slippers?"

I think Higgins' transformation is in the song lyric. This is a man who has sung "Why Can't a Woman be More Like a Man" admitting that "she almost makes the day begin". I think that's as close an expression of romantic love as one can expect from Higgins.

As for Eliza, she's already told Freddy and us how sick she is of words, so why would we expect her to suddenly sing "If Ever I Would Leave You" or the like?

But that's not to say you can't understand the ending differently than I (and, I would argue, the majority of Americans) do. You've certainly made Shaw happy and, once the curtain falls, the only life any character has is that which we conjure in our imaginations.

Updated On: 7/28/14 at 11:18 PM

Alan Henry Profile Photo
Alan Henry
#11My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/28/14 at 11:43pm

Maybe Eliza wasn't romantically interested in men, period?

Edit: I was being sarcastic.

Updated On: 7/29/14 at 11:43 PM

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#12My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 12:01am

"Someone's 'ead restin' on my knee,
Warm and tender as 'e can be,
'Oo tykes good care of me,
Aw, wouldn't it be loverly?"

Edit: sorry, I missed the sarcasm. My bad.
Updated On: 7/30/14 at 12:01 AM

A Director
#13My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 2:59am

>the British film adaptation of Pygmalion (the one that modernized the setting from the original 19th century to the the 1930s with Leslie Howard and the brilliant Wendy Hiller).

Scotty, you really don't know. Pygmalion was written in 1912 which makes it a 20th century play. I haven't seen the movie in years, I recall it being set around the time the play was written.

A Director
#14My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 3:34am

I saw a wonderful production of My Fair Lady last year at the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. The set was open with no walls and only a few pieces of furniture. The chorus sat on platforms with old fashioned theatre seats. They had one basic costume and in full view of the audience, they added coats, hats, aprons, vests, shawls, etc. This worked.

This is how the production ended. In Act II Scene 5, in the conservatory of Mrs. Higgins' house, after "Without You," Eliza says "Good-by, Professor Higgins. I shall not be seeing you again." (She goes) There were no doors in the set, so the woman playing Eliza walked out a real door in the back of the stage. The scene ended with the dialogue between Higgins and his mother.

Scene 6, with Higgins singing "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face." on bare stage. I think the song ended with Higgins in his study. He was very down. He turned on the recording machine and sat down to listen to the recording. Just before her line, "I washed my face and hands before I come, I did.", the woman playing Eliza opened a real door in the auditorium and entered. The theatre has continental seating. Eliza said her line standing in the aisle. HIggins looked up. He walked off the stage and went up the aisle to Eliza, spoke his final line, and they embraced. Blackout.

I asked a friend who was in the cast about the director's intension about how the production ended. He said she left things open for the audience. As an actor, he said he felt since Eliza walked out the door at the back of the stage, she was gone for good. As an audience member, based on Higgins' mood at the end of the song and the last few minutes before Eliza appeared in the auditorium, and then saying her line in the aisle, I felt Higgins imagined Eliza returning.

By the way, the actors who created the roles of Higgins and Eliza in Pygmalion believed the characters did end up together and played the ending with this in mind. Shaw was furious, so he wrote the long essay explaining why Eliza married Freddie.

henrikegerman Profile Photo
henrikegerman
#15My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 5:23am

I like Someoneinatree's response. However, the play premiered in 1912. If the play had a specific 19th century setting I'm unaware of it. And i'm not quite sure the 1938 film is in any way an emphatic remounting of the original setting. If anything it strikes me more like a current production of Glengarry Glenn Ross (1982) which wouldn't go out of its way to make the setting a period one. I could be wrong about that - certainly the 1938 movie was meticulously designed, so perhaps nothing should be taken as happenstance.

In any event, although Shaw might not have been happy, the ending of the 1938 film and the musical for me don't detract from the brilliance of the work, they merely vary it.

And as far as being "friendly like" that may be the way a great deal of romances which start hot and heavy end; something Shaw arguably understood better than anyone.

StageManager2 Profile Photo
StageManager2
#16My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 8:40am

My Fair Lady was based more on the 1938 British film adaptation than the actual play. It borrows heavily from it, such as the "Rain in Spain..." bit, renaming Nepommuck as Karpathy, and, more importantly, the ending, when Eliza returns to Higgins and the final line: "Where the devil are my slippers?" What's more, the screenplay was written by George Bernard Shaw himself -- for which he won the Oscar -- so it is he who changed the ending, not Lerner & Loewe.

BTW: Though the play takes place between 1912 (when Shaw wrote it) and 1914 (when it premiered), the 1938 film updated the setting to a (then) contemporary time. Wendy Hiller's hairstyle and hemlines scream late 1930s. My Fair Lady brought the setting back to pre-WWI England.

Scene from Mrs. Higgins' at-home tea party:


Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia

henrikegerman Profile Photo
henrikegerman
#17My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 8:46am

So right, StageManager. How the mind plays tricks in blessed memory.

Yero my Hero Profile Photo
Yero my Hero
#18My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 9:36am

What's more, the screenplay was written by George Bernard Shaw himself -- for which he won the Oscar -- so it is he who changed the ending, not Lerner & Loewe.

Shaw was forced to add the happy ending by the film's producers, and he hated it. His original screenplay ended where the play did. I wrote a paper on PYGMALION/MY FAIR LADY in grad school.


Nothing matters but knowing nothing matters. ~ Wicked
Everything in life is only for now. ~ Avenue Q
There is no future, there is no past. I live this moment as my last. ~ Rent

"He's a tramp, but I love him."

Reginald Tresilian Profile Photo
Reginald Tresilian
#19My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 9:53am

Per Wikipedia:

"Shaw fought uphill against such a reversal of fortune for Eliza all the way to 1938. He sent the film's harried producer, Gabriel Pascal, a concluding sequence which he felt offered a fair compromise: a romantically-set farewell scene between Higgins and Eliza, then Freddy and Eliza happy in their greengrocery/flower shop. Only at the sneak preview did he learn that Pascal had shot the 'I washed my face and hands' conclusion, to reassure audiences that Shaw's Galatea wouldn't really come to life, after all."

StageManager2 Profile Photo
StageManager2
#20My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 9:58am

Well, he sure had no trouble displaying his Oscar on his mantel despite not attending the ceremony and trashing the awards. Even now it sits on display in his home, which has since become a museum, right next to his Nobel Prize.



Salve, Regina, Mater misericordiae
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia

Someone in a Tree2 Profile Photo
Someone in a Tree2
#21My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 10:29am

"Someone, are you quoting lines from the musical? What scene? "

Yep, all my quotes are from Act II Scene 5, in Mrs. Higgins' Conservatory. Admittedly these lines come BEFORE Henry's final song "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face", so it's entirely fair to understand that Higgins' feelings have shifted for Eliza by scene 6.

I still find it untenable to believe Higgins could become anything we today would define as Eliza's lover or husband. He seems incapable of such radical repair after the entirely unequal first 6 months of their relationship. Could Eliza settle for being in love with Higgins? God, I hope not-- but choices for girls like her would have been so few in 1912 (and even fewer 2 years later with the start of WWI) that it is conceivable that she might indeed make the calculus that Higgins was the best of her options.
"Poor Eliza, How simply frightful!"

Updated On: 7/29/14 at 10:29 AM

ScottyDoesn'tKnow2
#22My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 10:02pm

"Scotty, you really don't know. Pygmalion was written in 1912 which makes it a 20th century play. I haven't seen the movie in years, I recall it being set around the time the play was written."

I meant to say early 20th century but for some reason I typed 19th century (I must have had 1900s stuck in my mind). Anyway, looks like you got one wrong too with you misremembering the setting of the 1938 film.



Updated On: 7/29/14 at 10:02 PM

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#23My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/29/14 at 11:13pm

"I still find it untenable to believe Higgins could become anything we today would define as Eliza's lover or husband. He seems incapable of such radical repair after the entirely unequal first 6 months of their relationship. Could Eliza settle for being in love with Higgins?"

Settle for Rex Harrison? Yes, I imagine it could be done.

"He seems incapable of radical repair after the entire unequal first 6 months"... I understand your view, but it isn't what the musical says. "I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face" is entirely about Higgins' amazement that he is not in fact the superior partner in the relationship after all.

GavestonPS Profile Photo
GavestonPS
#24My Fair Lady question(s)
Posted: 7/30/14 at 10:57pm

The above is my opinion, obviously. It is no more nor less valid than Someone in a Tree's view.

Put simply (and Someone will correct me if I'm wrong), Someone feels that Lerner failed to fundamentally transform Shaw's play, so he reads the ending of the musical as Shaw intended the ending of PYGMALION.

I, on the other hand, believe Lerner successfully "Americanized" PYGMALION so that "love conquers all", even social class and devout bachelorhood.
Updated On: 7/30/14 at 10:57 PM